Fitzg’s Journeys – RAWorld Women Part 1

Today, Fitzg’s Journeys begins an interesting series.  Here is part 1 of RAWorld Women.

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20 thoughts on “Fitzg’s Journeys – RAWorld Women Part 1

  1. We never get enough of Lucas and his gal pals in Spooks 7, but in an ensemble piece that is not too surprising. Filling in the gaps is fine, but I wish there was some continuity from season to season.

    • I think it was a shame that the Elizabeta storyline was dropped halfway trough series 7, there was great potential for a conflict in loyalty between country and ex-spouse on both sides, with countless dramatic possibilities. Why introduce such a character if she simply disappears? Completely agree on lack of continuity bewteen the series. Series 8 Lucas was a different man from series 7 and it wasn’t just that he had recovered from imprisonment and adapted to MI5 again.

      • Jane, I completely agree with your points regarding Elisaveta. It was such a wasted opportunity for dramatic conflict. Besides, Paloma was a better actress than were the other “romantic” entanglements. Can we not conjure a dozen plot twists featuring a continued role for Elisaveta?

        • Apparently (according to the DVD commentary) she was supposed to be married to a banker and met Lucas accidentally at the party in episode 5, but they dropped that. I expected her husband to play some part in the plot, he could have been working for the FSB or be threatened by them to put pressure on her. I also fully expected the Elizabeta plot to be picked up again in the finale, even if the outcome wouldn’t be a happy ending for her and Lucas.

          Apart from that, it never made sense that the Russians let Lucas go. He was supposed to be a double agent and went to great length to proof his loyalty in episode 4. Much was made out of the danger he and Elizabeta were in – and suddenly  they never required his services again? When Darshavin came into play in series 8 he was a renegade agent, not working for the FSB any more. They could have filled series 9 with the Russians coming back for Lucas without all the JB stuff!

    • That lack of continuity was/remains a total frustration for the audience. For which reason I preferred to talk of the one potentially viable and interesting romantic relationship within the three episodes. Sarah Caulfield has been exhaustively discussed within our community – actually,despite the glaring flaws, she was at least a bit more interesting than the hapless Maya…

      • Sorry for going slightly of topic, but lack of continuity/character development that was consistent was the major problem in Spooks and RH (and even SB1 vs SB2, totally ignoring the cliff hanger of series1). If fans and fanfic writers care more about the characters than the real writers and know them better and know better how they might react in certain situations, something is seriously wrong. I wouldn’t be so insistent that RA had to get himself out of those shows and into something better written hadn’t that spoilt watching and discussing his work.

        • Jane, is that off-topic? I think not. And a scenario featuring Elizabeta (so many renditions of the name in English – must stick to one! 🙂  ) and more FSB involvement would have been much more satisfactory in continuing Lucas’ saga than the butchery of Bateman, and attaching Lucas to stray and unprepossessing females in S8/9.

      • I agree with you Fitzg!

        Paloma and Hermione-two great actress,no wonder that they played well toghether.

        I think that too high temperature of the   feelings between the actors is just as harmful as too small. 🙂

        IMO avarage sympathy combined with talent and respect for a collegue is enough to create harmonious duet.

        Thank you Judiang and Fitzg! 🙂


        • Joanna, that was the charm of Ros and Lucas together, wasn’t it? The humour, mutual respect, and just maybe in other circumstances (thankfully not) a possibility of –

          Their relationship throughout S7/8 was just nice and sane and decently written.

          • We have no idea how RA got along with his love interests (though Layla Rouass gushed about him) but we knew that he and HN liked each other and got along well as colleagues. Their real life relationship may not have been far removed from Ros and Lucas. Thankfully he had a lot more screentime with Ros than with his various love interests. I also liked Ros in series 7/8 and with Lucas much better than in previous series. That was one of the things they got right.

            I would also have liked a romantic involvement with Beth, maybe because I like SM (and apparently she and RA liked each other as well). But maybe it is just because the female spies and their relationships with their male counterparts are always so much better developed than the love interests and romantic relationships.

            That seems to be a Spooks problem in general, not just concerning Lucas. The love interests were never convincing, we were just asked to buy that a spook is in love with this or that person. In most cases it wasn’t about the people involved and their relationship, as it would have been satisfying to watch, it was always an element that served the plot.

            No wonder the few “romantic” relationships between colleagues worked much better, we knew the characters, cared about them, had a chance to see them interact regularly.

            I also noticed that fans usually don’t like it if a guy looks weak in a relationship, as it was the case with Lucas with both Maya and Sarah. As heartbreaking as he was with Elizabeta, he had the upper hand, acted coolly, turned her into his asset and never betrayed his principles for her. Maya and Sarah in contrast brought out the worst in him, apart from the question if he would act like that, it wasn’t attractive to watch.




            • I’m inclined to agree about Beth, as SM played a female character of more depth and interest than the others in S9. Again, a better actress.

              For my part, it depends how a “weak” male character is written and performed. I wasn’t going to touch on Sarah Caulfield – the poor actress has already been shredded, but might be tempted: there is one point to the character in relation to Lucas that might be worth mentioning. We’ll see. And if she hadn’t been hampered by – well, thinking about it….

              I think Jane is right about the Spooks romantic relationships. The Ruth and Harry endless dance…Adam Carter’s relationships began to pall…

              • I’m in the minority as I’m not in the anti-SC camp. I think the idea (as they decided to drop Elizabeta) was great and again had great dramatic potential. Two adversaries, at first strongly drawn towards each other on a physical level, later deeply in love, forced to kill each other but unable to do so…It could have been so HOT and so tragic.

                I’m still trying to figure out why fans hated her and the fact that Lucas fell for her so much. Yes, she was BAD, but since when has him being BAD prevented anyone from falling for Guy? Why couldn’t she have the appeal of a female Guy? Actually that is on of the most fascinating questions for me – people are so harsh on Robin or on Lucas or on Sarah, but nothing Guy did could repel them!

                • Gisborne was nearly a Richard III as played by Olivier character – well, nearly is overdoing it. With a certain unholy charisma. (Again, the extreme is more Olivier than Armitage, but the roots might be discerned.) Rather fond of anti-heros, myself. Which is why I can find Gisbornes more interesting than the Porters….

                • That’s a great question about Lucas vs Guy. As a big Guy fan (if no one has noticed yet *grin*) I admit I like everything in him and I’m prepared to forgive him/overlook practically everything, I can’t answer why though.

                  I think, that a more adequate question (at least in my case, I don’t have the answer either) regarding Lucas and SC would be, why I’m a Guy and Marian shipper? In order to be one, I have to “forgive” Marian for playing with Guy’s feelings, thus I could “forgive” SC too for what she did to Lucas and I don’t. Maybe it has to do with me believing that Marian developed deeper feeling for Guy than she wanted to admit and if given the chance (by TPTB) she might have actually chosen Guy. Plus LG and RA had great chemistry that showed on screen.

                  On the other hand I never ‘brought’ SC really cared for Lucas at any point (not even by the scene with the gun that ‘proved’ she cared) and IMO the actors didn’t have much chemistry.

                  Not sure I remained on-topic…

                  OML 🙂

  2. @ Jane: I have nothing against”weak’ male character,I just don’t like poor”weak” acting.:)

    • Many fans hated the scene in 7.6(?), the cumulation of the SC story when she held the gun at his head but was unable to kill him, and afterwards he just sat there without going after her or calling Harry. His devastation should have been so heartbreaking, we should have felt for him like we did for rejected Thornton walking around aimlessly. It could have been one of the most moving scenes in his Spooks career. But many fans simply blamed him for being weak. Why that? Because the woman was not worthy of his love? Because we never “bought” their relationship?

      • I belive that there was no love betweem them,Jane! I loved Lukas7,and then,very slowly he was losing my symphaty.

        • I suppose it has to do with different approaches to watching. As the rational person I am, for me it is not such much about “sensing” “chemistry” which seems to be essential for many others to “buy” a story. I agree it is ideal if we can see what two people see in each other and see that they love each other, but if we are simply asked to assume they do – I assume.

  3. Hi Fitzg,

    Great post!  Poor Lucas.  None of the women thrown into Lucas’ romantic sphere “cut the mustard”.  All Lucas had in terms of positive relationships with women were friends–Ros, Jo, Ruth, Connie, etc.  After 8 years, you would think that the writers would have had Section D give Lucas a sympathy shag and girlfriend–as in Danni in Strike Back–if only to keep tabs on him.  The neighbor lady with cookies monitor of Lucas was motherly–but Lucas didn’t need mothering.  Lucas 7.0 needed lightness, caring, trust, faith, joy, humor, consideration, playfulness, tenderness, and sensuous love with abandon, etc.  But, he didn’t get it then, nor later.  No wonder the guy (little g) always looked so forlorn.

    Cheers!  Grati ;->

  4. I find that even with the most rational approach to characters, it is no use without feeling empathy for the character(s) or their siturations/dilemmas. That is what what makes drama. That is part of why we watch drama. That is why the John&Margaret story was to an extent compelling (not due to the actress’ abilities, she was out of her league) but because the production was excellent, the other acting, especially, but not only, Mr. A, very good. Lucy G is an intuitive actress, and she and Armitage simply struck matches. The were well matched, so to speak, in a small but entertaining series. The series and Lucy punched above their weight.

    Thanks all, for the comments.

    PS I loved Jo. Think I’ll save her for future reference….

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